I have been observing now for about 3 months and have seen many globular clusters, open clusters, nebulas, and galaxies. I am using an xt8 with 3 eyepieces and a barlow which are found in my signature. However, I am a bit disappointed with the images of galaxies. Almost every one that I have checked out has been a smudge with very little detail. I would like to at least see a couple of arms spiraling out. I would think M51 or M81 should provide what I am looking for but they do not.. I know about the darker the skies the better, but I have been out where I can clearly see the Milky Way sprawling across the sky and I point at these 2 particular targets and still no luck. They are bright and easily seen but with little detail. And yes my scope is collimated. Any suggestions on what I can do to get more detail and no I can't buy a bigger scope for a least 2 or 3 years. Or maybe I need to point at other targets that will give me the detail I am looking for... Suggestions??

This is a toughie. It requires not only spot-on collimation and nice, dark skies, but also as much aperture as you can bring to bear.

With practice, you'll be able to spot some detail in galaxies with an XT-8. With M81/82 you should be able to tell they're much different in overall shape, but you won't see spiral arms.

With M51 under a pristine sky (particularly at altitude) you will be able to see there are two galaxy cores and a bridge between them.

To see more detail, you're going to need more aperture. I do not see much more detail with an XT10, but I begin to notice it with an 11" SCT or a 12" scope of any sort.

Many folks have better eyesight than mine, so your mileage may vary ... but not a heckuva lot unless you're a very experienced observer.

Tip: One trick that works for many of us is to observe with a dark cloth over our heads, to shut out any stray light (even the Milky Way can be bright enough from a dark site!) and then to tap very lightly on the OTA. When the image wiggles slightly, the light is spread over a larger part of your retina and you really can see more detail that way ... the detail is more easily noticed because it is moving.

Hey stargeezer, Yes, I can tell a noticeable difference in the shapes of M81 and M82. It's just the fine detail like the arms of M81 that I am not seeing. I will definitely try your trick with the towel and tapping the scope. Thanks for the info.

 You could try M31. Even though it's slightly at an angle it's distance and brightness means you could see some spiral detail. I think just seeing the dust lanes qualifies you for that.

Hey Oliver, Thanks for the suggestion. I have checked out Andromeda on several occasions and it just appears as a very large blob. Even in binoculars which gives me a wider FOV, not much detail is seen.

Given that the observing site is dark enough, and that you have adequate aperture, I think the biggest factor in seeing structure in galaxies is a trained eye.  I know that under similar conditions I can see -- or at least I can recognize -- more detail in galaxies than I could a year ago.  I believe that I now understand better what I'm looking for, and that my mind recognizes faint details that I missed before.  I've learned to trust what I see in the eyepiece, and to relax and allow my vision to work rather than trying too hard.

Hey Zachsdad, I will try to relax and not try so hard. I do feel like I am straining my eye to focus in on small details.. There are fleeting times where I feel like I see very faint glimpses of arms but I don't know if I am imagining it or not... I guess I just want to plainly see these details.. Oh well, I will keep trying and use all of the suggestions. Thanks for the help.

One truism about deep-sky observing is that even though they do appear "brighter" faint fuzzies remain fuzzy even in 30" plus apertures.  Scotopic or night vision is mediated by retinal rod cells that have only 1/10th the resolution that the cones cells that produce photopic vision have.  So, to a certain extent, views of galaxies through an eyepiece can never equal the fine detail seen in astrophotographs and images.

Dave Mitsky

thanks Dave, I was wondering if these people that are taking these spectacular photos are seeing the same image in their telescope.. guess not... I guess I can start working out my retinal rod cells.. maybe build them up to half the resolution of cone cells... any suggestions on exercises for my rods and cones.. just kiddin

Heck, if they are anything like the imagers I know, few ever even look through a telescope anymore.

At what magnification are you trying to observe for structure? In my opinion most people aren't observing with enough magnification. Finding the right magnification to create a proper sized exit pupil is important. A 2 to 1mm exit pupil helps our retinas to resolve what is already a poor situation.  If you use too low a magnification the image will be smeared over a too large an area of the retina. Think of how if you enlarge on a computer screen a low resolution image it looks blurry and fine detail is difficult to make out. As you reduce the size of the image it will become more and more clear. This is until you make it too small to make things out. Think of your retina as the computer screen and the exit pupil of the eyepiece, as the image.

In the end it also takes alot of practice to make out detail. Just keep practicing.

Bill 

Hey Bill, I've used all of the different eyepieces I own including the 10mm and 25mm plossls as well as the 17mm Stratus. The ones that I feel give the best detail are the 25mm and 17mm. I've also used a 2x barlow with all of these as well. The best images are at 70x. I think it is just a matter of working too hard to focus in on the detail. I seem to catch glimplses with averted vision. I would just like to see more detail when I focus on the object. Anyways.. thanks for the info and I will continue to try and train my eyes.

If you want to see more detail, why not try imaging it. Because the camera integrates, collects light over a long period of time, while our eyes do not. With imaging you can often see more detail.

 

 True, but I think he wants to see them with his eyes.

I'm one to rather see with my eyes what object through the scope rather than using a mallincam or taking long exposures(although taking a pic of  a object with one's scope does have a small bit of satisfaction) as well.  You will eventually see more detail as your eyes adjust to viewing through the scope,just give it some time :)

 

Bert

A proud Goto user. 

I am trying to see these details with own eyes. My telescope, the xt8, isn't really for imaging. I guess later down the road I will upgrade to a scope that is capable of astrophotography.

 Stars distributed along the galactic arms have some protection due to the galactic plane. As the galactic arm pass beyond the band of liffe, due to the production of increasing amounts of entropy, the higher order of life becomes impossible to maintain.
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I have owned an 8" Newt for many years and with practice you will be able to tease out a bit of detail in superb conditions, but most of the time I am just satisfied to discern the shape of the galaxy.  I look for things like edge on spirals for example that will look like needles.   Real "wow" detail that one can see with direct vision needs a lot more aperture as has been said.

Instead of the cover try an eyepatch.  I find it easier to use and it will block out the extra light and allow your observing eye to relax without the strain of trying to close the off eye.  I never go out without one.  Right now I bet you can get one from a pirate costume at the 99c store!

Arrrr,

L

Aye Matey! I will give it a try. Thanks

It's strange how few people will use an eye patch.

A few minutes at the EP to let your eyes get used to it and all strain of using one eye is gone. The improvement and comfort of visual observing will make you wonder why it took you so long to discover them. 

I've read that observing while seated allows you to tease out more detail, although I don't know first-hand about this.  I don't own one, but an observer's chair is on my list.  (As is now an eye patch. )

Just my .

-StarNerd